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	<title>Comments on: Obama&#8217;s left: turning on the SM crowd</title>
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	<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/</link>
	<description>I am a PR and love my trade. Nevertheless PR requires a reality check. We&#039;re about helping clients speak honestly, even robustly. People who run things have a lot of explaining to do in the next few years, so PR is crucial. I want a lively debate and I hope you’ll make it so.</description>
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		<title>By: Stockholm Accords interrogated &#8211; part 1 &#124; 21st-century PR issues › Paul Seaman&#39;s online review</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3216</link>
		<dc:creator>Stockholm Accords interrogated &#8211; part 1 &#124; 21st-century PR issues › Paul Seaman&#39;s online review</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 May 2010 13:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] It is also a myth (approaching technological determinism) that the internet and SM has created a new world of meaningful value networks. Take politics and public opinion. The UK election just showed that the internet is almost irrelevant to politics and to political outcomes (see here, here and here). The US election showed how the internet can have a major influence on politics, but not quite the way many commentators claimed. Even there it still played second fiddle to mainstream media, as demonstrated here. It is worth noting that the US-experience was a temporary one-off. There&#8217;s no relationship being forged between Obama and the masses via social media today, because a relationship is not a relationship unless it is ongoing. Moreover, as the 50-year-old and even older Tea Party GOP veterans turn to social media to vent their anger, Obama&#8217;s more youthful team increasingly condemns the medium itself (see here). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] It is also a myth (approaching technological determinism) that the internet and SM has created a new world of meaningful value networks. Take politics and public opinion. The UK election just showed that the internet is almost irrelevant to politics and to political outcomes (see here, here and here). The US election showed how the internet can have a major influence on politics, but not quite the way many commentators claimed. Even there it still played second fiddle to mainstream media, as demonstrated here. It is worth noting that the US-experience was a temporary one-off. There&#8217;s no relationship being forged between Obama and the masses via social media today, because a relationship is not a relationship unless it is ongoing. Moreover, as the 50-year-old and even older Tea Party GOP veterans turn to social media to vent their anger, Obama&#8217;s more youthful team increasingly condemns the medium itself (see here). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3080</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 08:14:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3080</guid>
		<description>Bob, thanks for your thoughtful comment. When it comes to post-modernism I have to admit to being influenced by this zeitgiest. Nevertheless, this blog is all about reason and questioning, which is very much along Enlightenment lines. So I guess I&#039;m conflicted; and like most people I&#039;m pulled both ways at once. But I always try to favour my Enlightenment side over my post-modern in my writing; so long as I can spot the difference.

The Grunig crowd resemble religious fundamentalists. They ask &quot;what comes after Grunig?&quot; and their answer is &quot;Grunig comes after Grunig&quot;. So they are absolutists. They believe that their man ended PR history - as in the development of its thought, methodologies and insight - once and for all. Meanwhile, they try to make reality fit the theory and end up talking nonsense about social media and much more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, thanks for your thoughtful comment. When it comes to post-modernism I have to admit to being influenced by this zeitgiest. Nevertheless, this blog is all about reason and questioning, which is very much along Enlightenment lines. So I guess I&#8217;m conflicted; and like most people I&#8217;m pulled both ways at once. But I always try to favour my Enlightenment side over my post-modern in my writing; so long as I can spot the difference.</p>
<p>The Grunig crowd resemble religious fundamentalists. They ask &#8220;what comes after Grunig?&#8221; and their answer is &#8220;Grunig comes after Grunig&#8221;. So they are absolutists. They believe that their man ended PR history &#8211; as in the development of its thought, methodologies and insight &#8211; once and for all. Meanwhile, they try to make reality fit the theory and end up talking nonsense about social media and much more.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Batchelor</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3079</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Batchelor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 15:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3079</guid>
		<description>Hi Paul,

Maybe the challenge with Grunig&#039;s model is that he puts too much emphasis on stakeholder involvement. Perhaps modern audiences -- dropping in and out of issues and topics so briefly based on the nanosecond media cycle -- can&#039;t even qualify as stakeholders. Grunig imagined a world where angry mobs stood vigilant outside corporate HQ with pitchforks, ready to riot. Instead, we have audiences that are disengaged in general. In other words -- communications chaos.

Thus, your analogy to PR as art is apt. Flexibility is key, as you indicate. While I don&#039;t consider myself a postmodernist, I do favor PR thinkers who reflect the reality of communications in this environment. Scholars like Derina Holtzhausen, Priscilla Murphy, Bruce Berger, and Robert Heath offer something beyond the orthodoxy of Grunig and the wobbly &quot;excellence&quot; study.

Proponents of that study are attempting to show that social media is the ultimate form of two-way symmetrical communications, which (again) is a rather utopian vision of it. The real point is that it doesn&#039;t even matter. Most people favor gut reaction, or &quot;gungho certainty&quot; as you say, which places critical thinking at a deficit. In that sense, we&#039;re all getting what we paid for...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Paul,</p>
<p>Maybe the challenge with Grunig&#8217;s model is that he puts too much emphasis on stakeholder involvement. Perhaps modern audiences &#8212; dropping in and out of issues and topics so briefly based on the nanosecond media cycle &#8212; can&#8217;t even qualify as stakeholders. Grunig imagined a world where angry mobs stood vigilant outside corporate HQ with pitchforks, ready to riot. Instead, we have audiences that are disengaged in general. In other words &#8212; communications chaos.</p>
<p>Thus, your analogy to PR as art is apt. Flexibility is key, as you indicate. While I don&#8217;t consider myself a postmodernist, I do favor PR thinkers who reflect the reality of communications in this environment. Scholars like Derina Holtzhausen, Priscilla Murphy, Bruce Berger, and Robert Heath offer something beyond the orthodoxy of Grunig and the wobbly &#8220;excellence&#8221; study.</p>
<p>Proponents of that study are attempting to show that social media is the ultimate form of two-way symmetrical communications, which (again) is a rather utopian vision of it. The real point is that it doesn&#8217;t even matter. Most people favor gut reaction, or &#8220;gungho certainty&#8221; as you say, which places critical thinking at a deficit. In that sense, we&#8217;re all getting what we paid for&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Seaman</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3072</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Seaman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 08:32:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3072</guid>
		<description>Doug, somebody else described it as an anti-Grunig rant disguised as a political rant. 

Certainly, I&#039;m not taking sides in US politics so much as exposing PR hype about social media and making the case against there being a new age of engagement. If others can cite Obama in support of their case, I&#039;m entitled to interrogate the evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, somebody else described it as an anti-Grunig rant disguised as a political rant. </p>
<p>Certainly, I&#8217;m not taking sides in US politics so much as exposing PR hype about social media and making the case against there being a new age of engagement. If others can cite Obama in support of their case, I&#8217;m entitled to interrogate the evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Nurse</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3067</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Nurse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 17:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3067</guid>
		<description>Mere political rant disguised as PR news. Yawn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mere political rant disguised as PR news. Yawn.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Walker</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3063</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 18:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3063</guid>
		<description>HELLO.......let&#039;s have a reality check folks.

Barrie Obama - Harvard Law, Professor, youngest editor EVER of the Harvard Law Review - intellect, cool headed lazer analysis and cold logic yes.. but man of the people not really and noteven a politician of the Nixon, Kennedy, Reagon, Clinton or Teddy Roosevelt class.

The guy needs an LBJ to manage the Senate and Congress, do the politics, get people into the tent pissing out not another virtual movement. 

Try reading John Naisbitt - Hi Tech World demands Hit Touch politicians - vide Sarah Palin and the T Party movement.. learn the lesson quick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HELLO&#8230;&#8230;.let&#8217;s have a reality check folks.</p>
<p>Barrie Obama &#8211; Harvard Law, Professor, youngest editor EVER of the Harvard Law Review &#8211; intellect, cool headed lazer analysis and cold logic yes.. but man of the people not really and noteven a politician of the Nixon, Kennedy, Reagon, Clinton or Teddy Roosevelt class.</p>
<p>The guy needs an LBJ to manage the Senate and Congress, do the politics, get people into the tent pissing out not another virtual movement. </p>
<p>Try reading John Naisbitt &#8211; Hi Tech World demands Hit Touch politicians &#8211; vide Sarah Palin and the T Party movement.. learn the lesson quick.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Brighty</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3062</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Brighty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 17:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3062</guid>
		<description>Nothing new in elitism.  It has been the ruling mantra through the ages and is commandment No.1 of the EU.  To the EU elite, we democrats are just a bloody nuisance ... and we don&#039;t understand the importance of the EU vision to boot.  Ultimately, it all comes back to the Social Contract.  We give up freedoms in return for certainties.  Are we getting those certainties...are we Hell!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nothing new in elitism.  It has been the ruling mantra through the ages and is commandment No.1 of the EU.  To the EU elite, we democrats are just a bloody nuisance &#8230; and we don&#8217;t understand the importance of the EU vision to boot.  Ultimately, it all comes back to the Social Contract.  We give up freedoms in return for certainties.  Are we getting those certainties&#8230;are we Hell!</p>
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		<title>By: Jo Jordan</title>
		<link>http://paulseaman.eu/2010/02/obamas-left-turning-on-the-sm-crowd/comment-page-1/#comment-3061</link>
		<dc:creator>Jo Jordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 16:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://paulseaman.eu/?p=9586#comment-3061</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve lost your argument.  There are 6,8bn people in the world and 6,8b x 6.8bn-1 x 6.8bn-12 x... 1 possible dyadic relationships.

Nothing in the social media project says all these dyads will exist. There is no need. The networks interconnect and if the research is to be believed we are 6 jumps away from anyone.   

We just have two way conversations with the Dunbar number around us (around 150). With only one connection between each tribe we have room for a 10x increase in population before 6 degrees is impossible.

As you say, in the top down world of strategy, we think through how information ripples through the world.  And we think through which ripples we notice and how new communication forms change the pattern of ripples.

You&#039;ve got heaps of arguments bundled together. They might go together or maybe the weakness in anyone leaves the whole begging an argument?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve lost your argument.  There are 6,8bn people in the world and 6,8b x 6.8bn-1 x 6.8bn-12 x&#8230; 1 possible dyadic relationships.</p>
<p>Nothing in the social media project says all these dyads will exist. There is no need. The networks interconnect and if the research is to be believed we are 6 jumps away from anyone.   </p>
<p>We just have two way conversations with the Dunbar number around us (around 150). With only one connection between each tribe we have room for a 10x increase in population before 6 degrees is impossible.</p>
<p>As you say, in the top down world of strategy, we think through how information ripples through the world.  And we think through which ripples we notice and how new communication forms change the pattern of ripples.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got heaps of arguments bundled together. They might go together or maybe the weakness in anyone leaves the whole begging an argument?</p>
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